Cultivating Success: Timeless Principles with Shawn Moon

In this episode of the Franklin Planner podcast, hosts George Wright III and John Harding welcome special guest Shawn Moon, chairman and CEO of Zerorez. Shawn shares insights from his extensive background in leadership, having held executive roles at Franklin Covey and worked with Fortune 500 companies and government organizations worldwide. The discussion covers the importance of timeless principles from the ‘Seven Habits of Highly Effective People,’ highlighting their universality and relevance across different cultures and organizational levels. Shawn emphasizes the significance of weekly planning and daily personal victories as foundational to effective leadership. He also provides a sneak peek into his upcoming book, which distills wisdom from interviews with 100 CEOs. Personal anecdotes about Stephen R. Covey underscore the enduring power of these principles in both professional and personal life. This episode offers actionable advice for leading oneself and others effectively in today’s complex world.

---

Episode Timeline

00:00 Welcome and Introduction

00:35 Meet Shawn Moon: A Leader’s Journey

03:39 The Impact of the Seven Habits

06:58 Applying Principles in Business and Life

16:03 The Power of Weekly Planning

23:21 Daily Private Victory: Sharpening the Saw

28:09 The Power of Choice: Habit One

28:48 Defining Your Values: Habit Two

29:11 Executing Priorities: Habit Three

29:43 Foundations of Personal Leadership

30:03 Effective vs. Ineffective Leaders

31:06 The Importance of Principles

32:37 Researching Leadership Insights

33:30 Lessons from Top CEOs

42:07 Remembering Stephen R. Covey

46:47 The Role of Empathy in Leadership

---

Episode Transcript

Welcoming Shawn Moon – Former Franklin Covey EVP and CEO of Zerorez

George Wright III: All right. Well, welcome back to the Franklin Planner podcast.

We are excited to be here with a special guest today. I’m here with my co-host John Harding. How are you?

John Harding: Doing great, George. Good to be here with this amazing guest. 

George: Yeah. We are joined on the call today and through this podcast with Shawn Moon, and I wanna give a bit of an introduction, but I, I appreciate you being here today, Shawn.

Shawn Moon: My pleasure. I am thrilled to, thrilled to be part of this. It’s great. 

George: Yeah. You know, for the context of individuals that may not know you, I wanna do a quick introduction. So, you know, Shawn’s the chairman and CEO of Zerorez, uh, franchising system. It’s a company providing [00:01:00] safe, eco-friendly cleaning solutions across the U.S. but the individual that we’re gonna be talking to today has an amazing background. He’s the former Executive Vice President of Franklin Covey leading, you know, world teams and sales performance. And he’s also got 30 years working with Fortune 500 companies and government organizations worldwide. He’s a Wall Street Journal bestselling author, a renowned worldwide leadership, uh, you know, speaker, winner of the Ernst and Young, uh, or, uh, a finalist in the Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year, just a few years ago. And he’s just got an amazing background. And so John, I think we’re really, really fortunate to have him here today. 

John: We’re lucky to have this guy with us. Uh, I think that Ernst and Young was this year, right? Shawn? 

Shawn: Uh, it was last year. 

John: Last year. 

Shawn: Yeah.

Shawn Moon’s 30+ Year Journey with Franklin Covey and Stephen R. Covey 

John: Lemme just add in and then Shawn, we’ll go your way for a second here. I have, I think I counted it up, Shawn. I think I’ve known you 29, 29 years. Yeah. Uh, you know, you’re not really, it doesn’t seem like you’re old [00:02:00] enough to know you professionally that way. Uh, but we, I’ve had the opportunity, George, to work with Shawn, uh, in a number of different, interesting, difficult, rewarding, um, incredible opportunities.

And I think they’re a good blend of what we’re working on, kind of leading your own life. And I would say, Shawn, you’re a man of high character and then you’ve just read a list of high competence. So it’s, there’s a cool personal side here. Uh, let me throw this in ’cause we’ll get going and we won’t have time to come, come back to it.

For most of the years, uh, George, we came together when Franklin and Covey came together, and I kind of came from the Franklin side and Shawn, uh, from the Covey side, and we were kind of shoulder to shoulder colleagues. And then we worked, uh, on a number of projects, uh, not really working directly with each other for each other.

But my last time with Shawn, I [00:03:00] reported to him, and you know, it is different. You, you might work side by side. You might know a neighbor and think that’d be great to work with, but when you work for someone, you really find out. And I will admit that the high things I thought about Shawn in all those other years, which were great, uh, great experiences, uh, working for you Shawn, uh, was awesome. And I think the finest, I think that’s a, a real compliment, uh, because I have some very good friends that, I love them dearly, and when I’ve worked for them, it’s been harder. 

George: Well, and, and you know what’s amazing, Shawn, is you’ve spent, uh, you know, decades teaching and living the seven habits, and that’s why having you on today is gonna be an amazing way for us to kind of dig into what timeless things you’ve learned when it comes to applying these habits in your business and in your life.

So, tell us a little bit about your background and just, uh, what, what some of the things that you’ve [00:04:00] gathered that relate to that. 

Shawn: Well, um, happy to, and thank you by the way, to both of you, George and, and John. Um, I am, John, uh, I’ve, I’ve always felt like I have had the richest of experiences because of the people with whom I’ve been able to and, and just really blessed to associate, um, and at the top of that list is, is John Harding, one of the leaders that I have admired for God, 30 years, that– I had hair back in the day. They’re not that old. That’s that how’s it possible, you know, I, I had the privilege of working closely with Stephen R Covey, author of The Seven Habits for about 25 of those years, and, and great leaders like Hyrum Smith and Stephen MR Covey and John Harding.

Um, and so I guess my, my story kind of begins with the remarkable people that, uh, I’ve really been privileged to associate with. Uh, it was interesting. I started with the [00:05:00] organization. I started with Steven R Covey, and, uh, it was even before the seven habits book was published. So in 1988, and, you know, I, I had the qualifications for that job because I showed up to the interview wearing a suit.

And that was really, that was really what– it was just getting started. He, he had been a professor at the university and had been convinced to mortgage his house and, and, uh, create some capital so he could start this organization. And my first job was sort of smiling and dialing. And at the time, nobody, nobody knew who Stephen R Covey was.

They didn’t even know how to pronounce his last name. I remember calling people and “Kobe, who, who’s this?” And, and then in 1989, we decided to publish the seven habits book without really any expectation, right.? We hadn’t done this before and uh, and you know, it was, it was a good book we thought, but, but really no expectation.

And it was really interesting to see how it kind of took the world by storm and, uh, and introduced for [00:06:00] me an opportunity to grow and stretch and be uncomfortable, but really embrace a framework that has been foundational. It has been a, a foundational framework, not only in my life, but in the life of my family and my children. To the, to the point that my oldest son, Cameron, he is now one of the great consultants at Franklin Covey, who likewise travels all over the world. And, and he, he represents a little bit different generation and a voice that is so necessary in, in the, the field of, of leadership. So, I mean, I can’t, I can’t begin to express the ways that my life has been impacted by the amazing people with whom I’ve had the rich privilege associating and the remarkable content, I refer to it as framework.

Um, and I may say a little bit more about that later. That has been, you know, foundational to every part of my leadership in every role, in every organization that I’ve been part of.

The Universality of Timeless Principles – The Seven Habits Across Cultures & Continents 

George: It’s interesting [00:07:00] because you’ve had the perspective now of watching that framework not only be created and implemented, but then you took it and, and you were there, but then you took it and applied it in a business as well. Yeah. So as the time has gone by, we talk about these timeless principles, you’ve, you’ve truly seen how that framework can apply in a bunch of different scenarios, yeah? 

Shawn: All over the world with organizations large and small from, from the largest Fortune 10 right? To, to beginning organizations just getting started, what I, and, and, and on every continent of the world, except for I’ve, I’ve yet to go to Antarctica. So if anyone listening is going, just know, I will carry your bags, stand on the ice, and we’ll have a conversation about leadership so I can claim all continents, but, but really across the world, in, in every language, interestingly, and who would’ve thought this, right? But in Japan, for example, the seven habits have sold more books than any other book next to the Bible, and the [00:08:00] same thing in Korea.

So what we’ve learned is that principles of effectiveness, which we didn’t create, Stephen Covey never said that he was the author of these principles. He wasn’t. They’re just principles of effectiveness that, that like natural laws in, in, uh, in, in the world of science, right? For example, the law of gravity– go to the top of the tallest building and step off. There is a law that will govern. And, and whether you like it or not agree with it, or not acknowledge it or not, that law governs. And, and you might say, well, what if you’re on the space center and you step off? It– does that law all of a sudden not, you know, is it not in effect? And the answer is, well, actually yes it does, because the law of gravity still exists in space. It’s what holds the moon and the orbit around the earth and the earth and the, in the, you know, system and et cetera. And if you understand how it applies, we’re able to get these big, huge chunks of metal. The last airplane I flew on weighed about 750,000 pounds. And yet somehow, some way [00:09:00] it went down the runway and then lifted up into the air. Isn’t that amazing? But because it obeys the principles of lift and thrust and drag, and wingspan and airspeed, and all the principles of flight, these natural laws apply, and what we’ve learned in the world of human interaction, those principles apply and they apply regardless of language of culture, of where you live, of your economic status, of your education level, those principles of human interaction and effectiveness apply.

For example, George, I mean, if I continue to demonstrate untrustworthy behavior, will you continue to trust me? 

George: No. 

Shawn: It’s a natural law as predictable as the law of gravity, right? And so, so what the seven habits and all the other rich information that Franklin planner, uh, has really espouses and teaches and helps one implement their, so they’re universal, they’re self-evident, they’re self validating, self validating and timeless. You know, they [00:10:00] happened a hundred years ago, a thousand years ago, they’ll happen in the future. 

George: You know, it’s a very interesting perspective, John, because, um, not only are they timeless, but you, you kind of said something Shawn I really liked, which is whether you understand them or not, these principles and things exist.

Yeah. Now, your understanding of those and applying those in your life is what helps you to then become more successful, fulfilled, and it is much like faith, right? Like, you don’t have to believe these laws apply for them to be real. They, they, they are universal laws regardless, but your understanding of them will help you go to another level. 

Applying the Seven Habits in Elementary Schools – Purest Form of Leadership

Shawn: They will. Um, so there’s a lot of application and, you know, we call these habits and habits require that we do things over and over again. I’ve had though a super interesting experience relative to sort of the universality of, of these principles. We worked with executives across the world and senior leadership teams, and even board levels and down to frontline employees and, and, uh, individual [00:11:00] contributors and all, you know, seeing, seeing organizations become effective at all levels and then the individuals within those organizations.

But several years ago now, I was part of the team that created the process to take these same leadership principles into elementary schools, K-6. I, I reached out to Stephen and this was before he passed away to let ’em know this experience. It was in Winter Park, Florida, and I was sitting in this kindergarten classroom where they had taken these concepts and, and embedded it into the system as the, as the, uh, the school’s operating system at all K-6 levels.

And were sitting on the floor cross-legged. They just come out, back from research and recess. And I was, I was watching these children use the, use the principles of negotiation and effective communication to resolve a conflict of something that happened on the playground. And they were using this [00:12:00] language that was a language that the CEOs would be proud of.

And it was, it was, I, I said to Stephen, that might be the purest application I’ve ever seen of these, these principles. It’s really fun to see the new generation say, you know what? There are principles that apply and I can be more effective in my life when I engage them. 

Advice for Leading Your Own Life: The Power of Weekly Planning (the 30-10 Rule)

John: Shawn, let me ask you this, George, let’s see if we can do this before we end today.

I would love it if you would share a couple of your insights referencing the habits or just stories if you were giving some advice. ‘Cause you have, you’ve given great advice to me and I’ve seen you teach this, consult individuals and companies. But if you just looked at it from for a second, leading your own life and, you know, younger or older, uh, just creating that best life and you said, hey, here, here are some ideas, uh, that you might offer relative to the habits or just what you’ve [00:13:00] seen, specific to just creating a great life, uh, and leading your life, kind of, you know, taking that initiative, using that agency. Uh, you are kind of a master in this area. What are some ideas you’d offer today? 

Shawn: Sure, sure. I’m gonna maybe answer that, John, in a couple of ways. First, let me, if I can talk about it at the organizational level and then at the very personal level, um, down to the specific question of if I were to give advice.

What I have found as I’ve worked across the world with these leaders is that there are four things that, that are always in play. Always when, when these are adopted at an organizational level. The first is that the senior level team has to be committed and they have to be willing to model it themselves, number one.

Number two, they have to engage some kind of framework. And this is one of the things that the seven habits is so powerful that it introduces a framework and organizing model. [00:14:00] And number three, that framework introduces language, vocabulary, skills, tools, processes that allow us to talk about. 

So for example, John, when you say I’m in quadrant two today, you and I speak that language and we know exactly what that means. Or you might come to me and say, Hey Shawn, is this a quadrant three or a quadrant one? And we know exactly what that means. So it facilitates communications. There’s something about the language and the words we use. 

And fourth, getting to the specific answer of your question, then how do we as leaders. At all levels. And even if I don’t have a supervisory position, I am still a leader of my own life. Very much a leader. Every person is a leader. How do I model these behaviors? The seven habits are very, very rich in their application. There are, you know, 20 specific practices associated with each of the seven habits.

Um, but let me give you [00:15:00] one piece of advice that I, I’ve learned through heart experience, how powerful and how important that is. I remember Stephen Covey being asked once, God, there’s just so much that habit one, and you’ve got Circle of Influence and you’ve got the be proactive versus reactive and all the way through. And each of the habits has these different models and frameworks and language of, and you get to, you get to habit five, which is the habit of personal communication and empathic listening. And how do you do that? And, and, and then habit seven, which is balancing your own life and continuous improvement and personal renewal. You know, you, you engage with these and you might be, you might find yourself saying, okay, but how do I do it all? How do I do it all? 

George: Overwhelming. 

Shawn: Yeah, overwhelming. And Stephen says something to me that changed my life. He said, you don’t worry about doing it all. He said, simplify it. He said, there’s two things, two things.

If you will do these two things, [00:16:00] it will change everything. And here’s what they are. Number one, give yourself the gift of 30 minutes once a week. I have, I still, I love technology. I use technology to plan, but I gotta tell you. I use this tool and I use it every week. I have a standing appointment with myself at 8:00 AM every Monday morning, and in that time I, I review what is my mission, and I’ve spent a lot of years refining my mission and I think about what roles am I currently playing.

I’m a husband, I’m a father. I’m a CEO, I’m an author, I’m a consultant. I’ve got roles in my community, roles in my church, and I ask myself this question. What’s one thing, one thing I could do this week in each of those roles, and there are some weeks where I don’t do something in every role, right? But I come away with what we call the big rocks and what’s that?

If I were to do that one thing, it would have an [00:17:00] impact in my life. You remember the old ad? I think it was Quaker Oil. It said, we don’t wanna change the world, we just wanna change your oil. Right? Yeah, yeah. My weekly activities may not change the world, but it changes my oil for that week. It moves me forward, and then I plug those big rocks into my schedule first.

And I have found that that one activity, I call it the thirty-ten, thirty minutes once a week, and then five, 10 minutes at the end of each day to review, okay, how’d you do? And I was gonna do this, but then I had this other emergency come in, so this big rock dropped. So I have to reschedule it. 

And I have found that over time that just has yet, I, I, I guess I, I’m, I cannot overstate how powerful that has been in my own life over the course of months and years where I find myself feeling like I am actually doing those things that are consistent with what I’ve [00:18:00] identified as my mission and as my vision, and are connected with my values to my sense of purpose.

And I found that when I don’t do that, I go through the week, I feel just sort of off, you know, that feeling. I just, I feel like I’m not quite firing on all cylinders. So that’s the first thing Stephen said. He said, give yourself that gift of weekly planning. 30 minutes. 

John: Shawn, before you go on, can I ask you this?

Shawn: Yeah. 

John: As you mentioned over time, and George and I have done brain research on this and aging, it seems like that practice works no matter your age, no matter your– 

Shawn: Absolutely 

John: –situation, wherever you are, it’s a timeless pattern and mindset. Have you found that to be… 

Shawn: I agree. In sort of brain science language it, it moves you into the prefrontal cortex, into that executive part of your brain back away from the, the amygdala, you know, that fight or flight. Um, you have to respond to emergencies all the time, but more of [00:19:00] that deliberative. And if you don’t do that, then you’re kind of at the mercy of the things that just happen.

My guess is that most, listening to this do not look at their schedule and just say, Hey, I have these big, huge unaccounted for chunks of time. Most of us don’t live in that world. Most of us live in the world where there is something, you know, pressing and demanding our time and attention like all the time. So if we’re not deliberate and intentional about saying, but this is what’s important to me this week, and not just in this one role, but with a holistic view. 

George: Right. 

Shawn: The only way you get that is, is by giving yourself the gift of, of just a little bit of time. And by the way, it’s just a little bit. 

George: Yeah.

Shawn: That’s one lessons I learned. It’s, it’s not like you’re reordering everything. It’s just a little bit of time. 

George: Yeah. And I like your perspective on that, Shawn, because we are living in a digital overwhelm world, [00:20:00] and I do think perspective plays in, and we’ll get to your, your second point there, but I think most people look at this as a task.

Like, I need to get that 30 minutes blocked in and this and that. I, I love how you said, give yourself the gift of that, because at the end of the day, the only way, and when you, for those of you that might not be watching us on YouTube, he was pointing to his planner when he said, I use this tool. And one of the things that’s important is that sometimes we need tools to be able to provide structure, but when you look at it as a gift and that, that gift being something that keeps you intentional, it’s something that keeps you focused.

It’s something that keeps you going. I like your 30-10 principle, 30 minutes, you know, and five to ten at the end of the day. I love that perspective because it’s not, you’re not saying to be most productive in life add this to your list. You’re saying give yourself this gift of kind of unplugging being intentional and direction and clarity, right? 

Shawn: Yeah. And, and yes, I, I passionately agree and, and you talked about the tool. I mean, [00:21:00] I shared those four things that, that are always at the core of a great organizational culture of a great organization’s implementation of these principles. The commitment at the top, the framework, right? The organizing model, the, the, um, the language, the tools, the process.

If you don’t have those tools, then it’s really hard to implement. Number four is how I implement, how I model this behavior. And, uh, for me, that tool is, um. It’s, it is, it is my, it, it is, it is the thing that, that keeps me going. Right? I’m a very visual person and I, I embrace all technology and I love it, and it helps facilitate so much in my life.

And so sometimes I feel like there’s a little bit of duplicative effort, but there’s something in my brain that happens when I write things down. There’s just a different level of commitment and, and embed in my, in my sort of my mind and my heart that that is [00:22:00] impacted by the use of the tool. And, um, I have found, I’ve seen this, um, with people I’ve worked with closely over the years, that when they don’t have the tool, they, there’s just things that are missed.

And, you know, you get to the end of the day or the week and, and it’s like, oh yeah, I didn’t do that. 

George: And, uh, well, and you made a great point, uh, that I’ll just highlight again as, as we get into your point, uh, your second point is it is a little overwhelming sometimes. And so this advice that you received that just do two simple things, and the first being give yourself that gift, the tool, it helps you to apply all that in a very simple way, right?

Shawn: Yeah. Yeah. 

George: What was the second thing that he gave you?

Daily Private Victory – Sharpening the Saw for Physical, Mental, Social & Spiritual Renewal 

Shawn: So, first one, he said gift of, of, give yourself the gift of that 30 minute planning. Uh, sorry, I’m, I’m, I must watch, have watched too much TV as a youth, but there was another advertisement, this was the Diamond Net company 70 years ago, and they said, just buy one can a week. That’s all we ask. And I remember, I sure I bought a can of Monds, right? Only that [00:23:00] one time. But, but that stuck with me and, and my mantra now is just give yourself 30 minutes a week. That’s all we ask. If you will do that, it will be life changing and it truly will. So that’s the first thing. 

The second thing is very related and it’s what Stephen Covey used to call the Daily Private Victory. And that’s give yourself that opportunity every day to do something in one of these four categories. Do something that he gave the metaphor of sharpening the saw, right? That you, if you take time. From cutting down the tree to make sure your saw is sharp, you’ll cut the tree down faster, you’ll be more effective in your work.

And so we sharpen the saw in four ways mentally. Uh, well lemme start first with physically. Do I do something to take care of the physical machine, the body? Am I working at getting enough sleep? Am I eating right? Am I exercising appropriately? So am I sharpening the saw [00:24:00] physically? 

Am I sharpening the saw mentally? Am I doing things that engage my brain, that get me out of ruts and routines that cause me to invite me to think differently? I don’t know if you’ve ever found yourself like going through TikTok or reels on Facebook or something and it’s like an hour’s gone. It’s like I will never get that hour back. I did learn six new ways to cut up a watermelon, right? I’m not sure that’s gonna change my life. 

So physically, mentally. Third is socially, am I engaging with important people in my life? Am I deliberately connecting with important and building important relationships? 

And the fourth is spiritually, am I reconnecting to my sense of purpose and meaning in life in a regular, routine basis?

And, and so the advocacy here is 30 to 60 minutes a day. Do something, and it may not be all four, but do something. One of the big rocks I have, for example, each week is Friday night. Uh, Michelle and I have been married, um, 37 and a half years. When we first [00:25:00] got married, we, we said, okay, Friday nights date night. And, uh, when we were early on in our marriage, our friends would tease us like, oh, it’s girl’s night. It’s guy’s night. You know? And we would say, no, it’s date night, but guess what our friends are doing now 37 years later, date night on Friday night. Right? But if we don’t set aside, that’s an example of a big rock activity.

The big rock metaphor. Like you put the big rocks in the jar, and then the sand and the gravel, et cetera. If you don’t put those big rocks in first, you’re not gonna fit as many in. And so that’s, that’s an example of one of those, uh, relationship types of big rocks that helps me keep my saw sharp. 

George: Right. Yeah. It’s, uh, and you’ve spoken to this and I wanted to kind of highlight what he just said, uh, John, because this idea of a private victory or a personal victory, I think sometimes with the overwhelm people have in the world, um, and, and you know, they, they’re, they’re dealing with all kinds of, you know, mental illness, uh, depression, anxiety, things like this.

How, how important is that and what. How would you define that? [00:26:00] Private Victory in these areas? 

John: Yeah. Talk about this with me, Shawn. So I know it to be my best answer to that, George, would be the first three of the seven habits. But Shawn, let me pass that to you. And how would you define that? 

Shawn: I would agree and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll frame it this way.

Whenever I feel depleted, whenever I feel quick to take offense 

George: mm-hmm. 

Shawn: Whenever I feel edgy or just kind of not firing on all cylinders, I can always trace it back to some failure of my own in habits one, two, and three and habit seven, which is the daily private victory. 

George: Wow, that’s, that’s interesting ’cause that probably, that probably applies both on a personal and at a organizational level, right? 

Personal Leadership Foundation – Habits 1, 2, 3, & 7

Shawn: Absolutely. So for example, Habit One says you’re in charge of you. [00:27:00] I remember my first day of high school, I’m 14 years old and my first class was 7:00 AM and I, my parents had beat it into my brain that this is when your grades really matter, right? Because if you mess up whatever happened before, it doesn’t matter. But now, like you wanna go to college, you wanna get a job, you wanna, so, so you, so I’m on the front row of my first class, 7:00 AM, and my teacher, Mr. Williams, said, all right, everybody take out a sheet of paper. We’re gonna take a quiz and it is gonna count on your final grade, first five minutes of high school.

And I’m thinking, what am I supposed to do? I’m gonna fail this. I’m ever gonna go to college. My life is over. Is this one question. He said, who’s the most important person in the world? And I’m thinking, okay, my 14-year-old brain, what does he want me to say? God, my mom, I think I wrote my mom and I got it wrong. The answer he was looking for is, of course…. 

John: You. 

Shawn: You, yeah. It isn’t that an ego-centric response? I mean, no, it’s not. Because what it comes down to is no one else makes my decisions for me, but [00:28:00] me. Right? And that’s what Habit One fundamentally. Habit One is all about that I am in charge of me. That between stimulus and response, there is a space.

And like all the other members of the Animal Kingdom, we have this unique space between stimulus and response that says, in that space, I have the freedom to choose my response. Irrespective, regardless of what happens to me, I can always choose my response to what happens to me. So that’s what Habit One says, I’m in charge.

Think about this metaphor of climbing the ladder of success. You climb rung after rung, after rung after rung, and finally, with all the blood and sweat and toil and tears that goes into doing that, you get to the top of the ladder at the end of your life only to realize the ladder’s leaning against the wrong wall.

Right? Well, habit one says, I’m in charge of the ladder. Then habit two says, so put the ladder on the right wall. Be clear on what is important to you. When all is said and done, what do you stand for? What, what matters to [00:29:00] you? What do you want to achieve? What do you want to have? What do you want to do? What attributes of character do you want to possess? You wanna, what do you wanna become? And so there’s an exercise around clarifying what is important. 

And then habit three is the 30-10 rule I talked about. It’s the daily and weekly execution of those priorities. And John, you’re right, uh, uh, that’s my answer too, that when I feel some gap or, or sort of misfiring in my life, it’s because I’ve, I’ve become a victim. I haven’t embraced the notion that I’m in charge of my reaction. I’ve lived sort of inconsistent with my own values, and I’m not executing the plan, and I’m not sharpening the saw. So it really, for me, those things. That is the foundation for personal leadership. And I know that this is all about leadership is a lot of things, but if you wanna be affected with others, you gotta lead your own life. And for me, those elements are the foundation of personal leadership. 

What Separates Effective Leaders from Ineffective Ones Worldwide

George: Yeah. And that really is the key. [00:30:00] Right. So, and I’m curious, maybe we switch gears for a second. You’ve, you’ve basically worked with leaders around the world. 

Shawn: Mm-hmm. 

George: What, what have you noticed separates the difference between effective and ineffective leaders at, at a, at a high level? ‘Cause you, you’ve really been around, and this is global, this is domestic. But what, what have you found, you know, ’cause we’ve got a great framework here, has really separated or been the difference between effective and ineffective leaders. 

Shawn: Yeah. I remember many years ago, um, like many years ago, 30 plus, I was at a, a, uh.

Uh, leadership session in, uh, at the Garrett Creek Ranch. Garrett Creek Ranch, just outside of Fort Worth, between Dallas and Fort Worth. And we had a group of leaders there, and it was a really, uh, profound experience, but there was one leader who just didn’t buy it. And he had been there because he’d had some issues with, uh, his employment [00:31:00] and some, you know, he sort of on last sort of notice. And so they sent him there to fix him, right? That, that’s actually kind of a failure path when people, when people don’t recognize and embrace the framework. We didn’t make these principles up. They existed long before, you know, every written record of human interaction of human history has these principles embedded in them.

Every major religious and philosophical thought has these principles. They don’t belong to one religion or to one culture. They belong to humanity and, and you can, I think as Cecil Mill said, that you can, how do you say this, John? You might be able to help me speaking on in the context of principles. He said, “you, you, you can’t break the principles, you only break yourself against them.” Something to that effect. 

John: Yeah. Yeah. 

Shawn: When people do that, it is a path for failure when people are willing to do the daily activities, the daily, and I [00:32:00] actually, I’ll, I’ll amend that to say weekly because I think is a, a week is a, is a much better view for me personally when they’re willing to, to take a step back, to take a deep breath and to ask theirselves, you know, the tough, introspective questions and then, and then create and identify their priorities around those answers to those questions, then they will, they will implement.

And when they don’t, when they disregard it or think it’s, you know, some cute little process they read in the book, but you know what? You know, that’s, that’s for someone else. Then they’ll just break themselves against the principles. 

Shawn Moon’s New Book: 100 CEOs Share One Lesson for the Next Generation

John: Shawn, let me ask you this. I know that you’re researching right now, uh, something to go with your 30 plus years.

Shawn: Yeah. 

John: Uh, what, what is working, what leaders need out there. Can you tell us about your book and just the kind of work you’re doing? And then after that, I’d like you to just talk to us for a minute, uh, about the person, the man, Stephen R Covey, because you knew him. So if I [00:33:00] can throw those two out to you.

Shawn: Sure. Yeah. Thanks John. Um, I love to, I love to write. It’s always a challenging exercise, but it’s also also very, um, thought provoking. I remember one author said, “I don’t know anything about a subject until I write about it.” And for me that’s really true. That– 

George: That’s great. 

Shawn: –It really come, comes alive. My current project is, uh presently titled, all that could change, 100 CEOs, what a hundred What Extraordinary Leaders Want the Next Generation to Know. So I’m interviewing in the process well into this, interviewing a hundred CEOs and executive leaders and just, just finished interview of governor of a state and had a chance to talk with a member of the British Parliament and, and several CEOs, uh, across the world and asking in this one question: If there was one lesson, one lesson, knowing and recognizing leadership is a lot of things, but if there was one lesson that you wanted to pass on to your [00:34:00] loved ones, what would that one lesson be? And I gotta tell you, it is, these discussions are rich and, and meaningful. And, um, we’re not quite at a hundred, but we’re getting close to these interviews.

And what, what’s happening is they’re coalescing into 12 major categories. You see the, you see these principles of effectiveness, you see the seven habits woven throughout all of these things. Um, and, and things that, you know, it’s not all leadership things. It’s not intended to be the definitive treatise on leadership, but it, it does say, there’s a lot of things to think about. When all is said and done, what is one thing that you would like to pass on to say this really matters. And uh, and it’s been, it’s been pretty phenomenal. So that’s, that’s my current project in, 

George: I’m dying to know, and I know we gotta probably wait for the book to come out, but did you have a takeaway or two from that that surprised you, or were few of them surprises? You just started to see the [00:35:00] similarities? 

Shawn: You know, I guess one surprise that no one said that I wish I had, you know, generated more shareholder value, um, or that I wish I had produced, you know, more success around these KPIs. And by the way, there, those KPIs and OKRs, whatever you call them, those, those business metrics, they are of paramount importance. You know, I always teach my team no margin, no mission, you know?

George: For sure. 

Shawn: And you have to deliver results. The number one reason why CEOs lose their job is failure to achieve results. And so as leaders, we are hired to deliver results, deliver shareholder value to, to do all of those things.

But what surprised me is that these were all not, that they were all ways of getting there, ways of getting there that, um, that create long-term, lasting success. In Jim Collins book, Good to Great, he quotes John Maxwell’s, you know, five levels of leadership. These are all fifth [00:36:00] level leadership kinds of behaviors.

In one interview, I actually had one today and he, and he said, you know, it is the spirit of generosity. I thought that was an interesting, that was an interesting take. But, but, and he wasn’t talking about financial generosity so much as he was talking about creating opportunities for people to, to contribute and to grow and to support them and to, and help them such that they produce results because they volunteer, not because they have to, but because they choose to, because they’re so aligned with what we’re doing they volunteer their finest efforts. So, so that’s one of those gratitude and, and, uh, um, generosity is, is, you know, they’re among the themes that are emerging. I’ll give you a couple of others. I won’t, I won’t bore you with all 12, but humility and followship. Followership, you know, to be an effective leader, you, you, you need to learn to, um, uh, to subordinate your ego, to have the humility, to [00:37:00] subordinate your ego to the mission and purpose of the team and of the organization.

That’s interesting. One is, is entitled Dignity as Strategy. Isn’t that a great title? 

George: Yeah. 

Shawn: That you are engaging with people who are real human beings who bring their whole self to work. And if we can engage with people as whole people and see and treat them as whole people, the output of what we’ll get from them is just different. The dignity matters and, and seeing and treating people that way is, is great. 

Um, one is failure. Grace in the long game. You know, all of us have times in our career where, where it didn’t go where we wanted. Right? What do we learn from that? How do we get better? How do we extend that grace to others? 

One CEO I was talking with today, another interview. He talked about creating it safe in his organization. For people to make mistakes and not to punish them, to say, okay, what have we learned from this? So we don’t make this mistake [00:38:00] again, but we all become better. And that person feels honored in that process and, and he built an organization that is stunning.

It’s stunning. So this is not, it’s not just nice to have stuff. I mean, these things really are elements, uh, that drive success. 

George: Um, it’s interesting you say that because I think a lot of times, uh, and it’s through wisdom and and application of principles that people learn this, but I think a lot of people begin their careers in business and leadership as direct effort. Direct productivity gets you direct results and they begin to learn that you can still get the results focused on what some would feel are indirect ways or more cultural based things, right. Culture in the organization. And, and so for you to say those answers from some of the most elite CEOs in the world and leaders, it just validates that, right? 

Shawn: Really interesting. It, it’s, it’s really interesting. Um, one of the early tough leadership [00:39:00] lessons that I had to learn, um, was that my success really is going to be tied to other people. As an individual contributor early on in my career, I was pretty successful. And it came with a certain amount of ego and bravado, and at some point I was tapped on the shoulder.

You know that great quote from Winston Churchill. I’ll paraphrase it where it says it, “At some point in our lives, each of us is tapped on the shoulder, to do something significant and uniquely fitted to our talents.” Um, and then he goes on to say, “what a shame if that moment finds us unwilling or unprepared to do that for which would otherwise be our finest hour.” Something to that effect. Well, I was tapped on the shoulder to, to have a significant leadership role, and I struggled initially because I, I remember coming home one day, I’m embarrassed to even say this, you may want to edit this out. Um, and I said to my wife, with my head in my hands like this, something like, I just wish everybody could be like me.

And she [00:40:00] goes, oh, Shawn, don’t ever say that again. You’re thinking about it all wrong. And I was, and I hadn’t had that paradigm shift. That, you know, being an individual contributor is different than being a leader of others, especially when you need them to change their behavior in order to get results.

You need leadership is more than just stroke of the pen kind of stuff. It is getting results require others to change their behavior. And, and, and that was a hard leadership lesson for me to learn. But, but to honor people and to respect them and to engage them and to enlist them such that they volunteer their finest efforts.

This is what these CEOs are saying. It’s, it’s, yes, we’re about getting results. Yes, we’re about getting sustained results, but they come through these really unique, powerful leadership principles that, that we’re discovering. And you know what? We all know them. I this going back to the seven habits and then John, I’ll answer your question about Stephen Covey.

Um, so often when we talk about these principles, people will say, well. [00:41:00] Wow. Never heard that before, but yeah. Thank you for reminding us of things my grandmother told me. Right? ’cause principles have been around and it’s, it’s true. In these interviews that I’m doing with these a hundred CEOs, they’re, they’re just surfacing the kinds of things that, that lead to the kind of success that is sustained, but lifts and builds and transforms people in the process.

So it’s, it’s…

Honoring Stephen R. Covey – The Man Behind the Seven Habits 

John: what, what I hear in that, and then let’s talk about Stephen, but I think it’s a connection. It’s a bridge. Shawn, I hear, in your project, in this book, we look forward to it. Uh, kind of a deep respect for what people are going through now. You know, regardless of your age, but the market leadership and I can tell, uh, you know, we’ll see principles in what you’re writing and we’ll see a current feel to it.

Uh, I think so often people take timeless principles and they might [00:42:00] miss that. It, they all relate to right now to the situation you’re in and there’s a way to apply it. So talk to us about Stephen R Covey. Let me serve you up and then you just say what you want. But I’m gonna give you a couple pitches here. Just serve you up a couple quotes and then I’d love you to respond to this. These are Dr. Covey quotes, and just see where this takes, takes us and tell us. There’s so much about what he taught that has been a collection. But there was great wisdom, right, of things that did exist, that genius to bring it together and to make it happen individually and organizationally.

Here’s a quote. Uh, “we are the creative force of our life.” –Dr. Covey. Um, I’m gonna give you that one and then I’m gonna give you, Dr. Covey said “private victories precede public victories.” Anyway, share with us your perspective on him, uh, even related to [00:43:00] these quotes. 

Shawn: Yeah, I, I love those quotes. Um, I, I will just say that I consider it one of the great privileges of my life to have had that association. I got to, I gotta work with him closely. I gotta travel with him. I was privileged to take him to the White House, uh, to meet with, uh, with the President of the United States. And, uh, and that was really a fun and interesting experience. Stephen was someone who, who was at his core, a teacher. Everything he did was to teach.

He had high expectations combined with a, a very profound, deep belief in the greatness that exists in individuals and a deep reverence for principles, natural laws. And he talked a lot about the natural laws, these principles of effectiveness. And, and so his, his genius was making them [00:44:00] accessible. So, for example, he would say, um, I didn’t invent the, you know, the principle of personal responsibility. Of course he didn’t, he never suggested that he did. But what he did was to make the application understandable and doable. I gave the analogy of climbing the ladders of success. Habit one, I’m in charge of the ladder. Habit two, put it against the right wall so that we don’t get to the end of our life and say, gosh, I wish I was here and not here. Put it against the right wall. And then Habit three, climb the rungs of the ladder. He, he introduced this, the idea of climbing the rungs of the ladder, such that it became very, very implementable. 

He, the original title, most people don’t know this, um, we’re we’re familiar with The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, but the original title was The Seven Basic Habits of Highly Affected People. And Stephen really loved that word. And he engaged in a little bit of battle with Simon Schuster, the publisher, because he wanted that word basic and they wanted to take it out and [00:45:00] eventually went with the published wisdom, which was right. But the idea for Stephen was that these were basic, fundamental things that if we do, um, it will be transformative. 

And I’ll give you an example of this. Habit five. Just listen to the title of this habit, okay? “Seek first to understand, then to be understood.” And let’s say John, you and I are, are working on a project and, and we’re not seeing eye to eye. In fact, there might even be a little conflict and some tension and, and some backbiting.

And so you’re, you’re presenting your point of view and you’re doing it sort of passionately and it’s different than my point of view. And you know what? I know I’m right. So if I’m right and you’re different from me, by definition you must be wrong, right? Because I know I’m right and I’m approaching that communication that way. And the whole time you’re talking, in my brain you can see, almost see the wheels of my brain spinning because I am not listening to understand. I’m listening to respond. I’m [00:46:00] preparing my rebuttal point, counterpoint. I’m really gonna zing you here and I don’t even quite let you finish. I launch in and interrupt you, and as I’m preparing my very well-crafted response and your brain, you’re preparing your rebuttal, right?

Habit five says no. We listen to understand. Stephen said the deepest need of the human soul is to feel understood. And we, and we, we’ve all had those leaders. I hope we’ve all had those leaders in our experience where we, we don’t, might not even be able to articulate what’s bugging us, but we go into their office and we sit down or go to lunch with or whatever, and we just start and they’re so good at seeking to understand, it’s almost like this burden is lifted. Not that they take it themselves, but there’s such power in empathy. Um, and this is one of the things I’ve learned by the way, in my interviews of these CEOs, uh, overwhelmingly probably the number one thing I’m hearing is the power of empathy.

And, and as I’ve researched behind this, all of the [00:47:00] business values to being an empathic leader is profound from engagement to inclusion to the results that we produce. It, there’s, there’s, there’s, there’s great ROI to being an empathic leader. So Stephen was that kind of leader. And, and I’ll, I’ll never forget occasions where I had a chance to talk with him, you know, here was this man who was this New York Times bestselling author who was named as one of, I think it was, it was 25, you know, uh, most important Americans in the, in the decade of the, of the, of the nineties, of the, I can’t remember the exact, it was Time Magazine. Time Magazine, um, honor and recognition. And you know, this remarkable man, but when he was in a conversation with you, he was fully present. And, and so Stephen was, I am far from perfect at living these principles, but I will tell you that he was very, very intentional about living these [00:48:00] principles.

And you in your, just your interactions with him, you felt so lifted up and empowered because of the attention that he gave you. He wasn’t distracted by the 10,000 other things that were pulling aside. He gave you, I, I gave talk about the gift of personal planning each week he gave you that gift of his presence.

And it was, it was so meaningful. So Stephen, you know, and I, I, I, I, I travel with Stephen. I’ve been in his home. I guess maybe the, one of the best tributes I would give to Stephen and, and his, his modeling of these principles was, I’ve had lots and lots of occasion to spend time with his family. And these principles endure, their application endures, and, and you see it in his children and grandchildren, many of whom I know very, very well. And it’s a real tribute to, to him and his intentionality about, [00:49:00] uh, about what he taught. 

George: Yeah. That’s such a great perspective. It really is. I, I also, even from listening to you talk about him, it’s just, uh, emphasized even more that not only are these timeless principles, but he had a gift for simplifying and, and, and clarifying at a basic level. So I love that about the title of the book too, because I think that is what it’s all about. Even like his advice to you of, you know, don’t be overwhelmed. There’s really only two simple things you need to do. And so that’s amazing. Well, man, we could probably, we have, we, we could keep going and going.

John: We’ll get you back. We gotta, we gotta do that. 

George: But I tell you, Shawn, I’d, I’d love for you to, maybe before we take off, is there any, you know, if you took a step back. Is there any specific advice given our current time, any, like John mentioned before, at any kind of age level or whatever at our current time? Um, any ideas, thoughts, suggestions that you would throw out to our audience? 

Shawn: Yeah. 

George: Which are individuals that are focused on these [00:50:00] principles? 

Final Leadership Advice: See and Communicate Others’ Potential

Shawn: Yeah. The, uh, the, the, the whole concept of personal leadership of leading one’s life is, is deeply meaningful to me. I’ve kind of devoted my life and career to it. Um, and like I said about Stephen, I’m certainly not perfect uh, uh, at it. Um, you know, I, I remember coming home from a seminar where I, I had been teaching effective communication skills and I, I came home tired and I wanted to watch a basketball game, and my family had been, and my little kids were little and, you know, and thinking, oh no, I’ve gotta, I gotta, you know, be empathic and, and, uh, my wife saying something like, don’t gimme any of that covey crap. Right? Because you can’t go through just the mechanics. You’ve gotta really have intentional motive and sincerity around it. I’m not perfect at it, but, but I, I, I love it. I [00:51:00] said before, I, I refer to it as the gift. Um, that 30-10 process. I, I, I don’t think I can underscore that enough. There have been times in my life where I’ve been not as good at it, and I have felt the difference.

I have my effectiveness, my effectiveness in what I’m working on at work, and maybe more, uh, profoundly my effectiveness at home with my loved ones, with those who I love the most. It just is diminished when I am not, when I am not checking in with my, my vision, my values, identifying the roles that I play, the big rocks, connecting with my mission, and then plugging those in and giving myself the gift of planning that, that would be one that I would say if you could do that, maybe more than anything else, do that.

But I, I’ll leave you with one other, one other quote, um, from Stephen that I just added one word to, because I think it captures what, what we [00:52:00] aspire to as leaders and, and for me, I was the beneficiary of people like Stephen R. Covey and people like Hyrum Smith, and people like John Harding who, who did this for me.

Stephen, Stephen defined leadership this way and I’m kind of wary of definitions of leadership. They’re nice and short and pithy. ’cause leadership is not short and pithy. It’s a lot of things. But I do, I love this one. He said leadership is, I added the word seeing, “Leadership is seeing and communicating another’s worth and potential so clearly they begin to see it in themselves.” Isn’t that great? 

John: I love, that’s a great one. 

Shawn: We, we all have those leaders who saw something in us that we didn’t see, but because they did and communicated that to us, we live up to that level of expectation. We’re just different. And I am different because of, because of those great leaders who [00:53:00] saw something and allowed me to grow into that.

George: Wow. What a couple of great thoughts. We appreciate you sharing those. I love the gift and I love that leadership quote. John, do you have any final thoughts? 

John: I do. I want to thank George for pulling this together and uh, Shawn, for being here. This quote, I could put your name on, but you can, you can help me look at this. George, I’d like to just share in the spirit of what we talked about, kind of build on the greatness in people, the leadership capability that really exists in everyone. But this quote from Dr. Covey, uh, I just love and I think, Shawn, you exemplify this and have done this for me, but listen to this and see what you think, George. “Your most important work is always ahead of you”, and I just love this because I think it is true, and no matter your age, your season. Um, there is great [00:54:00] work and I think great work that only you can do. And so– 

George: That’s a great thought. That’s a– 

John: Shawn, you’re a great example of that with the more we hear about you, what you’re doing right now seems even bigger and more interesting than the great things you’ve done.

I think that’s true in everyone. So I just offer that. 

George: Yeah, no, that’s a great final thought. I love that. I think, uh, man, I feel, uh, being, being amongst you two giants, man, I, I, I, I love the experience and so we appreciate you being here with us, uh, today. Shawn, we’re definitely gonna have to have you back. Uh, I think there’s, I’ve scribbled down so many questions I, we wouldn’t even have time for ’em.

So appreciate you being here and, uh, John, appreciate you being here as well. And for those of you that are listening. Listen, we really do believe there’s greatness inside of you. We bring these, you know, great thought leaders together in order to help you to lead your life, but you know, it does take putting it into action and taking, uh, and taking some action.

So [00:55:00] hit us up on our, um, on our channel for Lead Your Life at Franklin Planners. Make sure that you share this show, share the episode so others can, you know, be part of our conversation and we look forward to having you on our next episode. Have an amazing day. 

Shawn: Thanks. 

---

Thank you for joining us on this Journey to create your best life and to lead your Life and Teams. Please share this show, and we look forward to the journey we will take together.

The Franklin Planner Team

About Guest: Shawn Moon

CEO, DIRECTOR & BOARD MEMBER OF BOTH THE USA AND UK COMPANIES

Shawn is our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, a position he has held since September
2017; previously he served as a member of the Board of Directors. Mr. Moon has over 35 years
of executive experience, having spent over 25 years with the FranklinCovey Company where he
served as the Executive Vice President and had responsibility for the company’s direct offices
and operations globally. He was also a principle with Mellon Financial. Since joining as CEO, Mr.
Moon has transformed Zerorez, increasing revenue, profitability, and securing private equity
funding with PE firm Banner Ventures. For his accomplishments, he was recently named as a
finalist for EY Entrepreneur of the Year. Mr. Moon is a Wall Street Journal best-selling author,
and he and his wife live at the base of the Wasatch Mountains and have 4 children 7 wonderful
grandchildren.

Guest Resources:
Website
UK Website
Instagram
Facebook Page