Balancing Digital & Paper Planning with Carl Pullein

In this episode of the Franklin Planner Podcast, hosts John and George welcome time management expert and productivity coach Carl Pullein. Carl shares his journey from a middle school student fascinated with time management to becoming a globally recognized specialist in the field. He introduces his groundbreaking programs, including the the COD Task Management System, and discusses the benefits of integrating digital tools with traditional paper planning. Carl’s experiment with returning to the Franklin Planner reveals significant improvements in focus, productivity, and fulfillment. The conversation delves into the principles of effective time management, the importance of slowing down, and how to balance digital and analog tools to lead a more intentional and productive life.

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Episode Timeline

00:39 – Meet Carl Pullein: Time Management Innovator

02:18 – Carl’s Journey into Time Management

05:12 – The Digital Age and Rediscovering Franklin Planner

06:19 – From Teaching to Time Management Coaching

11:36 – Challenges in Modern Time Management

14:47 – Introducing the COD Task Management System

28:29 – The Importance of Writing Things Down

29:00 – The Power of Pen and Paper

31:37 – Balancing Digital and Paper Planning

32:23 – The Focus and Fulfillment of Paper Planning

38:38 – Combining Digital and Paper Systems

53:19 – The Benefits of Slowing Down

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Episode Transcript

Welcome Back to the Franklin Planner Podcast

We are so excited to have a special guest here today. John, are you as excited as I am?

I think we’re lucky to be together, so let’s definitely get into it.

We’re joined by a time management innovator and productivity coach—someone with some amazing skills.

His name is Carl Pullein.

Introducing Carl Pullein

How are you doing, Carl?

I’m very good. Thank you for having me.

We’ve been connecting in a couple of different ways, and we’ve got some really cool stories to talk about. But let me give everybody a little bit of background on you—at least enough so they can understand who you are if they haven’t already seen you online.

Carl isn’t just another time management expert. He’s the visionary behind the groundbreaking Time Sector System and one of the programs we’ll talk about today, the COD Task Management System. He helps individuals worldwide master time management and boost productivity. Carl has been voted one of the world’s top time management professionals, has a major online following, and is a long-time advocate of the Franklin Planner system.

It’s obviously very serendipitous that we’re here together. So again, Carl, we’re so happy to have you here. And you’re in what part of the world?

I’m in South Korea. I’ve been here for the last 23 years.

Isn’t it amazing, the digital tech we have nowadays? We can be talking and riffing at all hours of the day. John just got back from Hawaii, I’m in Utah, and you’re out in South Korea—that’s great.

Carl’s Journey Into Time Management

More than anything, I think people would love to hear—especially those who haven’t met you—just a little about your journey. Maybe what your mission and your vision are. You’ve done some innovative work. Can you share your background from your perspective?

Sure. My journey with time management is kind of funny because it actually started when I was in middle school. Back then, we didn’t have the computer systems we have today. It was basically pen, ruler, pencil, and paper. I used to schedule out my exam revision timetables—and they were brilliant. I used different colored pens. That timetable was fantastic.

My only little problem was that I wasn’t actually very good at revision—but I was really good at planning it. Even as a teenager, I had a fascination with time and time management.

Then I joined the workforce. I started in hotel management, where time management really wasn’t a thing because you were constantly reacting to guest needs. Guests are king, and you just reacted. Then I moved into sales—and that’s where time management really started to impact my life.

The first four years of my working life, I didn’t have to worry about time management. You just reacted—someone needed a bottle of wine or an extra pillow, and you had to deal with it. But in sales, you had to do prospecting, set up appointments with customers—that was completely new to me.

I remember my sales manager telling me, “You’re probably the most disorganized person I’ve ever met.” That really hit me. I decided I needed to read about time management. At that time, Hyrum Smith’s 10 Natural Laws of Successful Time and Life Management had just come out. That was the book I picked up, and it completely transformed my life.

Things I never thought about—like governing values—suddenly made sense. Of course you need a foundation to build your life on. You can’t just react every day. You need to be more proactive.

That’s when I started using the Franklin Planner. I think it must have been late 1992. In 2009, I got my first iPhone. I got excited about all the digital stuff and jumped on that bandwagon for a good 10 to 12 years.

But I started noticing something was missing. I didn’t know what it was—until it hit me: digital technology has no soul. It’s just a list. The text on the screen is always the same. There’s no human element—no soul—in planning your day.

That’s when I had a flashback to my Franklin Planner days. I decided to run an experiment. Last October, I got a brand new Franklin Planner, set it up, and planned to run it for three months. Well, that was six months ago—and I’m still using it.

Finding Purpose Through Productivity

That’s actually how we connected. I think our listeners will want to hear that story. But before we get into your systems, was there a turning point when you decided to go into coaching, training, and helping people with productivity full-time?

Yeah. I was recently watching an interview with Brian Tracy about turning points in life. There have been a few for me. But the big one was coming to Korea.

I trained to be a lawyer before coming to Korea. I worked in an office for the first time—after hotel management and car sales, which involved a lot of movement and no assigned desk. Suddenly, I was tied to a desk for 8–9 hours a day. I realized: this is not for me.

After six years of training, I thought, “This was a mistake.” So I decided to take a timeout. I had a degree and thought, “Let’s go to Korea to teach English.”

Why Korea? Well, honestly—beer. Being English, I love beer. In Korea, a pint cost the equivalent of one pound, compared to four pounds in the UK. That was enough reason for me.

But I was very lucky. Almost from the moment I landed in Korea in 2002, I fell in love with the place. It’s such a dynamic, brilliant country. But my original reason for coming here was honestly just that beer was cheap—so everything else must be cheap too.

Discovering a Passion for Teaching

You were a pretty random soul, but also driven—you had the ability to follow what you felt like doing, which is ironic considering your path into time management.

Within three months of teaching, I was coming home buzzing every night. That had never happened to me before. We’d finish at 9:30 PM, and it would take me three hours to calm down. We started again at 6:30 AM. I wasn’t getting much sleep, but I was on fire.

I was in a room helping people—and I could feel it. They were saying, “Thank you so much. You’ve made this fun and easy. I’ve struggled with English my whole life.” My boss told me, “You’re into edutainment—educating and entertaining at the same time.”

I fell in love with teaching.

By 2012, it became clear that my passion for time management was still strong. I was reading all the books, watching videos, reading articles. I decided to start writing about it. In 2015, I launched my blog and started writing weekly. I still write every week.

In 2016, I started my YouTube channel. In 2017, I launched my podcast. I staggered each project to build solid processes. The first YouTube video took two weeks. Now, I can record one and have it to my video editor within a few hours. When I edit it myself, it’s two days of solid work.

Living the Principles You Teach

Carl, it’s interesting—because you’re a living example of someone who is directional, purpose-driven, and deeply connected to time management. You’ve aligned your passion with your principles.

That’s literally what we try to talk about on this podcast.

John, that’s crazy—he’s basically a case study in how to combine principles and productivity.

It is. As Carl was talking, I was reminded of The 8th Habit by one of our key partners and founders, Stephen R. Covey. Carl, I know you’ve done some work with Covey’s teachings. That book was really about finding your voice.

Finding Your Voice Through Helping Others

I feel like as you were teaching and helping people, you were finding your voice. And I’m curious to know, as it relates to leaning into this and helping others—focusing on what sounds like helping people succeed and create their best life—we talk about that a lot on this podcast.

I’m interested to know, as you’ve been working with people through different mediums, what are some of the main obstacles? I guess you could say goals that people are trying to achieve, or problems and obstacles they’re encountering—relating to their goals, time management, and just this area in general.

Modern-Day Challenges: Wanting Too Much

What continued to give you inspiration as you were helping people solve problems? What were they coming to you with?

I think today the problem is a bit different than what it was in the 1990s. Today, people—this is going to sound a bit harsh—but people want too much.

One of the reasons I established my areas of focus, or governing values if you like, was to determine what’s really important to me. Last year, I was reading every single time management book from the 20th century. I think I got as far back as the 1950s. I can’t remember the title of the book, but I was trying to read them all to see if there were any common denominators.

If you read those books from the sixties, seventies, and eighties—especially as we moved from factory work into office work—people were pretty clear about what they wanted to do. “I want to be the CEO,” or “I want to be the director.” Entrepreneurship was a word, apparently, but it wasn’t as common as it is today.

Now, people say things like, “I want to start my own business, but I want to start multiple businesses. I want a happy family. I want a house in the Bahamas,” and so on. It’s all “I want, I want, I want.” But nobody is stepping back and saying, “Okay, you can have all those things, but how are you going to get from where you are today to where you want to be?”

Closing the Gap Between Now and Your Dreams

That’s the bit I think people are missing today. They’ve got these dreams and aspirations—which is fantastic and very natural—but they’re missing that key part: saying, “Here I am today. That’s where I want to be. What do I need to do to close the gap?”

Then you’ve got all the distractions of today’s world, which weren’t around back then. People used to read the newspaper in the morning and watch the evening news at night. Two touchpoints for daily news.

But today? You watch people on the train or bus—it’s constant.

Productivity With Purpose

To John’s point and what you just said, people are so caught up in the digital age and what’s going on that they’re just worried about being. And I’m curious to ask you this question—and then we can talk a little about your system.

People are so caught up in productivity and time management that they don’t step back to actually lead their life or direct their life. You’re trying to be productive—but for what purpose?

Introducing the COD System

I want to talk about your system because you’ve found some timeless ways to help people manage their time and productivity. Maybe we could talk about your COD system. But I also wonder: do you have thoughts on the difference between task management, time management, and productivity?

Do you notice people struggling with different parts—like managing time versus actually being productive? And maybe that’s a good segue into your COD task management system.

The Myth of Control in Productivity

Time management and productivity are words that get thrown around a lot online. While we can define them clearly, the way I usually explain it so anyone can understand is: stuff coming in is never going to stop.

There’s a great story—when Queen Elizabeth passed away, she died in the afternoon, but that morning she still had to sign her papers and do the government boxes. Her civil servants made sure she did them. In the UK, all government ministers, prime ministers, and the monarch get a red leather box full of papers they have to sign, read, or review.

She still did that on her last day. Now, she died of something like a blood cancer—so she must have known her days were numbered. But she still did the work.

The Power of Constraints: You Only Have 24 Hours

That reminded me of a key realization: stuff coming in will never stop. Emails, Slack messages, team messages—those are out of your control.

But time? That’s a constraint. And I love constraints—they force you to be creative. You only get 24 hours a day.

There are basic human principles—like sleep. We need to sleep, even if it’s inconvenient. We need to eat. So realistically, you’ve probably got about 14 hours max to do actual work. I wouldn’t advise anyone to work 14-hour days, but that’s really all you’ve got.

You can’t stop the inflow, but you can decide what you do with your time. You can choose to get 8 hours of sleep. You can choose to spend 3 hours with your family. You can choose to walk your dog or take your kids to the park every day. Those are decisions you control.

Managing Tasks vs. Managing Time

If you go deeper, I always say: in the 20th century, we didn’t have email, but people still wrote letters. Charles Darwin, for example—between 1 PM and 3 PM—would sit in his parlor and write letters every day. It was just what people did. It was a joy.

Today, when people talk about replying to email, they groan. But we used to enjoy responding to letters. The difference? People carved out time every day for it. They knew if they didn’t, it would pile up into an overwhelming mess.

Purpose as the Antidote to Overwhelm

Let me add something to that. It ties back to what John said.

You’re absolutely right—stuff will never stop coming in. Where I’ve seen people struggle the most is when they don’t have purpose behind how they live their lives. If you don’t have direction, it’s much more difficult to handle all the incoming tasks and distractions.

But if you do have clarity on what you’re doing and why, then you have a better chance of handling it all with strength and composure.

Start With You First

That’s generally the bit I have to untangle with clients. I try to get them to stop trying to manage tasks—because you can’t control that—and start managing what they do with their time.

And for that, I always say: start with you first. Don’t start with your work. It’s easy to start there because that’s where we usually identify the overwhelm. But if you don’t sort yourself out first, you’re just going to feel unfulfilled and dissatisfied.

That’s when the low-level anxiety creeps in, which is deadly. Long-term stress leads to illness.

You’ve got to ask yourself: What do you want? I’ve listened to many of your podcasts, and I know John talks about that. It’s the key question.

Why This Podcast Exists

And some people will tell you, “I don’t have time to think about that.”
And you say, “Well, you’ll never have time if you don’t figure that bit out first.”
One of the reasons, John, why we’re doing the podcast is because we want to be up in your face, making sure we remind you there’s a reason you are actually here on earth trying to work, trying to create a living.

It’s not about being productive, right?

The Purpose Behind the Podcast

John, I don’t know if you want to comment on that, because that is literally why we decided to start this, right?

It is. And I think, Carl, you have really touched on something. People know what matters to them. And like you say, we’ve done a lot of research—and I think you have too—and you realize the power of goals, the power of a vision and mission. And yet a really small percentage of people, because there’s a whirlwind out there going on in life, if they can just take some time to figure out who matters most, what matters most…

You’ve done that with your system before. I think we want to ask you about the whole digital story and your experiment.

Introduction to the COD System

Carl, would you just comment about anything you’d like to say about your innovative system—the principles of it, the fundamentals? I would love to hear you just take a minute on it. And then people that are part of your amazing community know where to get it, but people that we touch will be able to know where to go for that.

John, that’s a great point. Let’s actually break it down for our listeners, if you would—your COD system, your task management system. Help us kind of break that down.

The Three Principles of Productivity

This came about when, again, I was researching into: what are the fundamental basics of all great productivity systems?

Which is one of the reasons why I read all these old, fascinating books. They all had these three underlying principles. What they added to them was different, because each person is coming at it from a different point of view, but there were three things:

1. Collect
2. Organize
3. Do

Collect

First of all, you’ve got to collect stuff that’s coming your way.
You need to have a way of collecting that stuff that you trust. If you don’t trust your collecting system, it’s going to fail because you’re going to be worried about what you need to do.

Franklin Planner still does this—I don’t know if people can see this—a little notebook that fits nicely in an inside coat pocket. You can carry this around with you. This is a great idea for a collecting system. I call it the “ubiquitous collection tool.” This is one of them.

But it can be something as simple as a pocket notebook with a pen attached to it. Or if you like the digital world, it can be your phone.

You need to have a way of collecting your thoughts, your ideas, the things like, “Oh yes, I need to do that, I need to do this.”
This is that part of externalizing it instead of letting it float around in your head, waking you up at three o’clock in the morning going, “Oh, I forgot to do that.”

Writing it down is just the best way to externalize all that stuff that’s coming at you.

Organize

The next step—which a lot of people forget—is to organize that stuff. That’s the “O” part of COD: Organize.

What does it mean to you? What do you need to do?

I have three basic questions:

1. What is it?
2. What do I need to do?
3. When am I going to do it, if at all?

So you run these questions:

• What is it?
  Oh, it’s a thought about buying a printer.
• What do I need to do?
  I need to research printers.
• When am I going to do that?
  I’m not going to do that in the middle of a call or while working on a project. I just need some time to figure out what’s the best printer for me.

For me, research is something I’d probably do in the evening, sitting on the sofa. Then it doesn’t feel like work. Everyone’s got their own way of doing that.

Do

The final bit is: Do it.

This part sandwiches the system together. You’re going to be collecting all day—that’s random. One problem I had with people, especially around 2015 to 2017 when productivity apps were exploding, was that people were spending 50 to 60% of their day just organizing their stuff.

Well, when you expand that time, there’s only one place you’re taking it away from: doing the work.

So one of the bits I emphasize in the COD system is: try to get to the point where 95% of your time is doing the stuff and just 5% of your time is organizing it. That roughly equates to about 15 to 20 minutes a day.

Now, if your system is set up correctly—whether paper or digital—it’s actually very easy to organize your stuff in 20 minutes a day.

Digital Tools vs. Simplicity

It’s interesting you say that, because I think so many people have lost the idea. Digital is supposed to make us more free, more successful, more productive.

All it’s really done is made most people think they can take on more.
And so by having that simplicity—and John, I know you would agree with this—it’s the simple principles that actually make your life better.
Not adding more and taking on more complexity.

So this COD system—the Collect, Organize, and Do system—may sound simple, just like many of the timeless principles we talk about.
But there’s a reason it’s supposed to be simple, right?

The Power of Simplicity in Planning

There’s a story that Hyrum Smith puts in his book about somebody calling him—a big CEO of a big company—saying:

“Hey, I’ve heard of your great system. I want you to come and teach my executive team. But we’re all busy at the moment, so can we talk about it again in six months?”

And Hyrum says, “Yes. What time do you want me to call you?”

The CEO says, “What do you mean?”

Hyrum replies, “What time do you want me to call? It’s six months from now.”

The CEO responds, “Just call me in six months.”

“No,” says Hyrum. “I need a time and a day.”

Hyrum talks about writing this down in his planner and explains how he uses planning folders and everything. On that day at 7:00 AM in the morning, he calls the executive.

The executive says something like, “Oh [expletive], you told me to call you at 7:00 AM on this day six months ago!”

That’s the simplicity, isn’t it, John? In just putting something down and being able to walk away from it. Nobody’s seen your system.

Collect, Organize, and Trust the System

But think about the mechanics of that:

• Collect: I’ve now committed to calling this guy at 7:00 AM in six months.
• Organize: Put it into your system.
• Go forward in your calendar. Write it in. The notes I made about what this guy wants are in my planner.

It’s perfect. It’s exactly what the COD system is meant for.

It can work with the Franklin Planner. It can work with a digital system.
If you don’t collect it—think of all the opportunities you’re going to miss.

Timeless Principles of Productivity

Carl, you told a story before we got on about connecting with Franklin Quest early on—how you were working at a hotel and had interest there.

What have you noticed as you’ve gone along in the cool work you’ve done?

What principles have you seen that you think are timeless?

What principles would you say the COD system is built on that you’ve just seen time and time again?

The Power of Writing Things Down

A Simple Yet Overlooked Principle

People benefit—succeed, even—if they keep this principle in mind. Behind those approaches, what jumps out to you?

The thing that jumps out to me is writing it down. That’s the one that I know. Again, it’s very, very simple. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to do this. I mean, it’s: write it down.

A Formula One Example

One of my interests is Formula One, and there’s Red Bull CEO Christian Horner. He’s done two videos on his YouTube channel: “A Day in the Life of a Formula One Team CEO.” One was from 2012 and one was done, I think, a year or two ago.

One thing I noticed was that when they recorded him in a meeting with one of his leadership team, Christian Horner didn’t have an iPad on his desk or a laptop or a phone. He’s got an A4 notebook with a very nice pen—which is one of the other beauties of using pen and paper, by the way. The pens out there are just fantastic.

And I thought, well, hang on a minute—2012 to 2023 or 2024—and he hasn’t changed that system. It suddenly struck me: yeah, we’re losing sight of what computers are meant for. They’re meant to help us.

Technology for Output, Not Planning

Using Tech Where It Makes Sense

A lot of my output—I need a computer for that. I write blog posts, I write newsletters, I do podcasts, I do YouTube videos. All that needs technology.

But the planning side of things, the meeting side of things—actually handwriting these things down—I know, John, you mentioned in a previous episode that it lights up the whole brain. I mean, that connection between a pen and your wrist, your fingers—it lights up your whole brain.

Typing vs. Writing by Hand

If you think about what a keyboard does, it’s just tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. That’s not lighting up much in your brain. And also, the big thing I notice is that writing by hand forces you to edit.

And when you’re planning, you don’t want to be editing. You just have to let it flow. You get those red lines or green lines under your grammar and spelling mistakes—that does not matter when you are planning. That’s the editing part.

The Trap of Over-Automation

I think those are the big things I’ve noticed, certainly in recent years, because we are beginning to think technology can run our lives completely.

I’ve tried one of those AI calendars. I like to exercise, but I’m not very good at exercising in the morning—I get a bit lightheaded.

Challenges of AI and Digital Calendars

The Limits of AI Scheduling

I prefer to exercise in the afternoon, but one of these AI calendars said, “Oh, you are busy today. You must do your exercise at 6:00 AM.” I’m going, that’s not gonna happen.

The other thing is AI won’t know if I’ve got the flu. It won’t know if I had a fight with my wife this morning. It doesn’t know any of that. Only I know that, and I can then manually adjust my calendar accordingly.

I think we’re losing sight a little bit—we are thinking technology can run our lives. Actually, that’s the last thing you want. Technology should not run your life; you should be running your life. It’s just a tool.

What AI Is Missing

And you’re right—the other thing it’s missing is the idea that it will never have that vision, clarity, and purpose factored into your day-to-day, which is what we’re trying to remind people about.

Balancing Digital and Paper Planning

The Million Dollar Question

It’s funny—the million-dollar question everyone’s going to ask, and I think it’s best explained by your experiment, is: “Okay guys, we get it, but how do we merge digital and planner? How do we balance those?”

One of the main purposes, John, and why I wanted you on the podcast, is that you started that experiment a little while back where you said, “Hey, I’m gonna go back to my Franklin planner.” And I love that you said, “I don’t know if it’s gonna work. I don’t know what’s gonna happen.”

You’ve been doing that now. Tell us about your experiment and then what you learned from that, or what your conclusions are becoming or are, for digital and paper.

Rediscovering Focus with Paper Planning

The Biggest Difference: Focus

The biggest change, the biggest difference I noticed was focus. My focus—wow—it just shot up once I went back to the Franklin Planner.

Now, as I mentioned a moment ago, the digital is just text on a screen and you see the same and same and same all day. You become a little bit numb to that. It’s like, “Oh God, there’s all these tasks, all these tasks, all these tasks.”

When you sit down with a Franklin planner or a planner of any sort—paper—and you step away from the screen, you just allow yourself a few minutes just to think, “Right, what do I need to get done tomorrow?”

Now, I always advise planning the night before because you sleep better. You also enjoy the evening more because you’re not worried about tomorrow—you’ve done your planning.

The Ritual of Using a Planner

I have a zipper binder on my planner, by the way. When I close it after my planning and zip it up, it’s like, as Richard says, “My day is done.” I love that feeling.

But the thing about the planner is it gets me to step away from that stuff on the screen—the emails are coming in, the text messages are coming in.

I’m on a sofa. My dog is sat next to me. My wife is studying because she’s gone back to university. She’s studying at the dining table.

It’s lovely and quiet, but it feels like there’s a connection between us all somehow. And I’m just there with my planner thinking, “Right, what are my most important things tomorrow? What do I need to get done tomorrow?”

And that has really helped me with my focus.

Starting the Day with Clarity

Then when I come through into the office in the morning, it’s just like I open up the planner. It’s just to the right of me, and I can just say, “Right, that’s the first thing that needs to get done today. Let’s get started.”

Why the Experiment Started

Overwhelm and Client Challenges

Was it a bit of overwhelm that made you do the experiment in the first place? Or what made you decide to do that?

It wasn’t like, for me, overwhelm, because I’d kind of figured out that a long list of stuff just overwhelms you.

But it was something that was creeping in with my clients. That’s what I was having to deal with—like 60 to 70 tasks on a task list for the day.

I’m thinking, “Wow, you could never do that with a Franklin planner because there isn’t 60 to 70 spaces there.”

But you would see it as you were writing all those tasks out in a planner—you would see, “This is not gonna happen.”

Whereas digital tools don’t do that. You could add a thousand things for today and it won’t warn you that you’re not gonna be able to do this.

The Planner’s Built-in Realism

But the other beauty of the planner—which I think is the calendar, your day calendar—is right next to your task list.

Like yesterday, I had like seven hours of calls.

So there’s no point in me putting 20 tasks on the prioritized task list because I could see all my calls on the calendar saying, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.”

There’s not enough time to do all this stuff.

So I think I only had two things: planning and solitude. That’s been at the top for 30-odd years when I’ve been using the planner.

And then there were just a couple of other things that just needed to be done in between breaks of meetings.

Digital technology does not show you that.

I say you can throw a thousand things for your day-to-day, and it’s not gonna warn you that this is an impossible day.

But Franklin Planner does that.

The Value of Writing Things Down by Hand

Avoiding Overwhelm Through Handwriting

As you’re writing it down by hand, you’re going, “Hang on a minute. This isn’t—I’m not gonna get all this stuff done.” And it stops you from overwhelming yourself. I love that.

I actually, I’ve been picking up a lot more personal productivity habits from John because of our conversations. John, I’m curious what your thought is on that, because I think what people have done—because they’re so overwhelmed with digital—is they’ve rationalized it.

They’ve said, “Well, what’s cool about digital is I can throw it all in my calendar and stuff, and then I don’t have to think about it till it pops up.” But what you’re really saying is, “I’m not gonna think about what I’m doing today,” which is the opposite of what you want if you want to create your life.

John, what would you think about that?

The Power of Leadership and Planning

The Inner Leader and Planning Awareness

I was thinking as Carl was talking, and Carl, you could tell us, and George, I agree with what you were saying there—you know, each individual has this amazing leader in them.

There’s nothing that we’ve found, and it seems like nothing you’ve found, that can disagree with that. We might even use the term “greatness potential.” But they may be so busy, so focused, overwhelmed, or maybe not even aware of the power of planning or goals or things like that.

It seems like some terminology we’ve come across is there are certain jobs to be done. You told us about some of your early jobs, but the digital technology—I’m interested to see if you would agree with this, Carl—has some really powerful aspects.

Strengths and Weaknesses of Digital Technology

Digital’s Strengths in Communication and Information

Digital technology is powerful for communication—texting and calls—and also for handling information. It really does a great job in these areas.

But as you said, technology took you away. We’ve had many amazing customers where technology took them away, and what it didn’t do for them was help them really take time to draw out of themselves—almost self-coaching—their potential, their values, really anchor with weekly goals, vision, and mission.

The Importance of Organizing and Prioritizing

Combining Digital Input with Thoughtful Planning

All that stuff in your inbox or coming at you has to have a way to be sorted through. As you organize, you can prioritize, which your system does, and then you can act on it.

I’m curious—did your experiment discover that there are a few things digital technology is just amazing for, and also some amazing fundamentals like writing, planning, and thought that got left behind but have come full circle for you?

Could you summarize—if you’re willing—the key things? What did you find about how people can combine these for themselves?

Finding the Balance Between Digital and Paper

Embracing Paper for Thinking and Planning

No, that’s not too long a question. It’s good.

For me, the way I’ve landed now is that thinking and planning on paper is the way to go—paper all the way.

Using Digital for Scheduling Efficiency

However, when it comes to, for example, the calendar, the way the world works today, my coaching clients use a scheduling service. I’ve pre-blocked out time on my calendar. They can just go in and pick a time and schedule it.

I can’t do that with my Franklin planner because I can’t just hand them my Franklin planner and say, “Pick a time.” That’s not gonna happen.

Integrating Key Appointments in Paper Planner

What I do do is in my planner, I put in key appointments—like if my dog’s got a grooming session or I’m going to the dentist or the doctor or anything like that.

What I like about that is I can actually see the month as a whole, and I can see if I’ve kind of overcommitted myself—that I’m not gonna be in the office on too many days or something like that.

Digital Systems and Their Advantages

The Calendar’s Role in Daily Meetings

But the digital system I find on a day-to-day basis for meetings, particularly, is the calendar is there for me. It’s like, when I join this call, the link that George has sent me was in the calendar invite.

You can’t do that in my planner. You can’t write out the link into my planner.

So those areas are where I think digital obviously has a huge advantage. It makes communicating fantastic.

Connecting Across Distance

As you know, George, you mentioned I’m in South Korea. You are in Utah. I think John, you are in Hawaii?
He’s back in Utah now, yeah. Oh, you’re in Utah now? So, like, my head’s in Hawaii.
Let’s be clear—that’s a great point. Miles between us. You do make a great point: digital brings us together.
Digital definitely has its abilities to help you actually be more productive.

Purposeful Use of Digital and Paper Planning

Deciding Where to Use Each System

John, your question is so great, and your answer is:
“Well, Carl, because of this, most people have not decided where they’re going to use digital and how they’re going to use the planning and your system.”

There are a couple of subtleties I wanted to point out:

Thinking and planning — don’t try to force the calendar stuff all into your planner. Adopt a digital calendar and record your primary things on your planner.

Maybe collect some things digitally, but put things in writing for thinking and planning.

Becoming Better by Defining Boundaries

When you are purposeful in how you’re going to use digital and writing, you become better at your life and more successful if you’re trying to do both.

I’ve experienced it—I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I’m using two systems here.” No, you are—you’re actually clearly defining where digital helps you the best and where you are missing from the digital here.

The Creative and Reflective Space Paper Provides

To John’s point in our earlier episodes, there are some things you haven’t thought about between your brain, your creativity, your thought process, and things like that.

Even you as a YouTuber, influencer, productivity coach, and international speaker, you still have to break away.

I noticed you said you had solitude and planning on your list.

Who even puts that on their list digitally? Nobody does that anymore.

The Value of Slowing Down to Go Fast

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

There’s a great saying—actually, it’s a Navy SEAL saying—that goes:
“Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.”

I think of it in terms of this:

If you need time to plan, that’s slowing.
If you need to think, that’s slow.
When you execute, you execute very quickly.

Using Technology to Execute Quickly

That’s what I’m doing now: doing something quickly.

That’s where technology comes in—I need to communicate with somebody quickly.

Digital Systems and Their Advantages

The Calendar’s Role in Daily Meetings

But the digital system I find on a day-to-day basis for meetings, particularly, is the calendar is there for me. It’s like, when I join this call, the link that George has sent me was in the calendar invite.

You can’t do that in my planner. You can’t write out the link into my planner.

So those areas are where I think digital obviously has a huge advantage. It makes communicating fantastic.

Connecting Across Distances

As you know, George, you mentioned I’m in South Korea. You are in Utah. I think John, you are in Hawaii?
He’s back in Utah now, yeah. Oh, you’re in Utah now? So, like, my head’s in Hawaii.
Let’s be clear—that’s a great point. Miles between us. You do make a great point: digital brings us together.
Digital definitely has its abilities to help you actually be more productive.

Purposeful Use of Digital and Paper Planning

Deciding Where to Use Each System

John, your question is so great, and your answer is:
“Well, Carl, because of this, most people have not decided where they’re going to use digital and how they’re going to use the planning and your system.”

There are a couple of subtleties I wanted to point out:

Thinking and planning — don’t try to force the calendar stuff all into your planner. Adopt a digital calendar and record your primary things on your planner.

Maybe collect some things digitally, but put things in writing for thinking and planning.

Becoming Better by Defining Boundaries

When you are purposeful in how you’re going to use digital and writing, you become better at your life and more successful if you’re trying to do both.

I’ve experienced it—I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I’m using two systems here.” No, you are—you’re actually clearly defining where digital helps you the best and where you are missing from the digital here.

The Creative and Reflective Space Paper Provides

To John’s point in our earlier episodes, there are some things you haven’t thought about between your brain, your creativity, your thought process, and things like that.

Even you as a YouTuber, influencer, productivity coach, and international speaker, you still have to break away.

I noticed you said you had solitude and planning on your list.

Who even puts that on their list digitally? Nobody does that anymore.

The Value of Slowing Down to Go Fast

Slow Is Smooth, Smooth Is Fast

There’s a great saying—actually, it’s a Navy SEAL saying—that goes:
“Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.”

I think of it in terms of this:

If you need time to plan, that’s slowing.
If you need to think, that’s slow.
When you execute, you execute very quickly.

Using Technology to Execute Quickly

That’s what I’m doing now: doing something quickly.

That’s where technology comes in—I need to communicate with somebody quickly.

Mental Clarity and Fulfillment from Planning

Setting It Aside Mentally

Mentally, I felt like I could set it aside. And I’m curious if you felt that, yeah, you got more results, but did you feel more satisfaction or fulfillment that you were actually driving your life in the direction you want? As far as purpose versus, “I’m getting so much done,” like sometimes I feel like I’m getting a hundred times done on things, but I could go back and say, “Ah, but my main stuff, you know, it’s not that.”

So when you did this experiment, you got the tangible things done, but was it that sense of fulfillment and also, you know, peace of mind? What kind of things did you experience there?

Fulfillment Through Ritual and Planning

Oh, the fulfillment side of it’s gone through the roof, which is probably one of the reasons I should have mentioned this in the actual video that I posted yesterday. This is one of the main reasons why I’ve not stopped. I should have stopped in December, but I never did. It’s now the—well, we’re now in… yeah, it’s a three-month deal, right?

But it is that sense of fulfillment. As I mentioned, that zipping up of the planner at the end of the day, after I’ve done my planning for the next day, is like a little ritual. I say, “My day is done. Now I can just relax.” It’s no more work. And if I haven’t done something, that’s fine—I’ve got the next day planned and I can pick up tomorrow, but that’s it.

So it’s nice. It’s like bookending the day. It starts—I’ll open up the planner when I come into the office and put it down on the desk. I always write a journal in the morning in a separate book, but it’s a handwritten journal. That’s one of my f—make coffee first, that’s always essential—but then sit down and write my journal. It’s like 20 minutes of writing my journal.

Before I do that, I realize I always open up the planner and have it to the right of me, so I’m very aware of what my most important thing is. I don’t put little routine stuff in the planner—that’s digital, that’s fine. I can just check that at the end of the day, you know, “Did I take the garbage out? Did I refuel the car?” Stuff like that—I’m not going to put that in the planner. This is the real stuff that’s going to make the day feel fulfilling.

Managing Digital Distractions

You do something that most people don’t see, and that’s what I was trying to get at: because your phone is one of your biggest time management and productivity tools, people could even leave their office, close their door, and go—but you take your digital stuff with you.

You’re able to block, go shift to a thought process of organizing, planning, and thinking, but then use that to close it off and create your life.

I gotta commend you on that. That’s pretty powerful and tangible stuff, don’t you think?

Credibility and Community Inspiration

I think it’s credible. Carl, your story is one where you’ve been interested in this, you’ve studied it, you’ve become an expert, and you’ve combined all your different experiences. It’s really amazing.

It would be fun if we could gather all your community into the Franklin campus—that’s kind of historical for Franklin Quest and Franklin Planner. We have an auditorium called the Hiram Smith Auditorium, but we would need a much bigger auditorium to gather your whole community there.

It’s been cool to hear. I want to thank you and say I feel like you’ve inspired me to take a little more time each day and each week and really customize and use the strengths of digital technology.

Most people are way overwhelmed, so we’re not knocking that—we’re just saying rediscover writing things down, journaling, and really drawing out what’s great in you.

If you haven’t done that before, maybe younger people who just started digital would like to visit your channels and sites, those that hear it from our community, and discover what you’ve discovered in your journey.

I’m really impressed—you’ve inspired me to lead my life a little more deliberately and to really focus. So thank you for sharing a bit about yourself.

Sharing Contact Information and Future Topics

John, I’ll make sure to put all your links and ways people can contact you in our show notes, so they can go there.

Before we go, because I know we’re out of time and we want to do this again to get into how to lead your team and organization—I’m desperate to get outside.

So, is there any last thought or direction you want to give people before we let you go?

Slowing Down in a Fast World

The Power of Slowing Down

I think, relating it to what I’ve learned with my Franklin Planner experiment—which is probably no longer an experiment because I’m back in it and totally love it—the most important thing is just to slow down.

Technology’s going to keep getting faster and faster and faster. Your brain is not going to get faster and faster and faster.

The only way we as a human race are going to cope in the future is to slow down, figure out what’s important to you—not what’s important to other people—but what’s important to you.

Make sure that’s what you’re planning for.

Stuff is never going to stop coming in.

I’ve got quite a lot of retired clients who say they’re now busier than they ever were when they were working.

The Need to Slow Down

Of course they are. It’s just because everything’s getting faster and faster. It has to be done now.

No, it doesn’t. Slow down.

Great advice. That is great advice for people—slow down.

Closing Remarks and Resources

Before we end, I want to make sure to note to all our listeners that Carl has an amazing COD system you can get for free, absolutely free, on his site.

Go check it out, connect with Carl, learn more about his journey, and because there’s a lot of lessons to be learned there.

We really appreciate, as always, as John mentioned, we want to help individuals lead their lives—to be more productive but also more fulfilled and passionate.

Thank you for joining us tonight, Carl Pauline—you are an amazing person.

We appreciate your time and look forward to talking with you more on the next episode.

Have an amazing day.

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